Pursuing the my article on the children off Llywelyn Fawr and you can Joanna in addition to responses it gotten, I looked again from the genealogical users on the subject of Gwladus Ddu. While it is genuine, due to the fact several genealogists suggest, you to on the lack of specific facts for some reason, brand new title of one’s mommy away from Gwladus Ddu must will still be ‘unknown‘, I found you should not change my personal end one their particular mommy is actually Joanna and not Tangwystyl.

Vat

One to further origin about its youngsters is the after the abstract throughout the ‘Kings and you may Queens from Britain‘ a well-respected publication, written by Oxford College or university Drive, webpage 106:

‘Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth, b.1173, son out of Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose‘) and you may Marared, daughter out-of Madog ap Maredudd; acc. east Gwynedd 1195; married Joan, illegitimate daughter off King John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; died 11 April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.‘

To show it is not only me you to thinks thus, i’d like to estimate one to genealogist that is good fan of Sharon: “I’m really keen on Sharon Kay Penman’s courses. As they aren’t strictly biographical, Personally i think more comfortable counting on their particular work to ‘fill in brand new blanks‘ (considering the quantity of research she obviously put in their particular instructions), than in in reality citing certain genealogical supply which i attended round the during my search (I’m sure we all run into sources in that way). In order to whoever has not yet discover their unique performs, I suggest they most highly, specifically if you need a feel for just what lifestyle try such 800 years ago.”

Their unique browse for ‘HBD‘, ‘Drops new Shadow‘ and you will ‘The newest Reckoning‘, achieved till the advent of the internet, is actually really an excellent

Following the questions posed of the Beth, Suzanne and you can Exotic particularly, We embark on evaluating the fresh name from Joanna’s mom (labeled hereafter, getting easy site just like the ‘Clemence‘ maybe not ‘Clementia‘) as a consequence of an affair towards to-be-queen John. This step became a great deal more cutting-edge than I would enjoys think you’ll! Shortly after running upwards many blind alleys, primarily using seeking get together again the chronology of a single towards the almost every other, I have settled on which uses. Really don’t point out that everything i wrote are definitive in just about any contour otherwise means, in addition to facts are we will most likely not be sure out-of her label.

(a) Brand new illegitimate Joanna, daughter off “Clemence,” is actually unquestionably created of wedlock –– as is proved from the Honorius III’s decree declaring their genuine when you look at the April 1226, even though instead of bias to the queen otherwise field of England (we.e., providing her no-claim to that throne). The decree, that has been transcribed in the amazing, unpublished Check in of Honorius III (Reg. thirteen, fol. 122 ), states inter alia you to definitely “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de- soluta,” which, I am told, means “King John away from England, whenever single , fathered you by a single lady.”

It indicates Joanna have come produced zero afterwards than simply 1189 whenever John hitched Isabella regarding Gloucester. Their own mother, “Clemence” was probably French otherwise Norman, as proof from the patent goes out-of John’s reign signifies that Joan try delivered from Normandy to England in December 1203, to prepare to own relationship to Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth (find less than). Joanna passed away during the Feb 1237.

(b) John’s genuine child Joan, by Isabella regarding Angouleme (hitched in order to John from inside the 1200 on many years a dozen!), was born on Gloucester to the 22 July 1210 (comprehend the Tewkesbury Annals about Rolls Collection, vol. 36.i, p. 59; the fresh Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. thirty-six.iv, p. 399; plus the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium for John’s Leadership, pp. 124, 143). This is basically the Joan swedish sexy women exactly who then married Alexander II of Scotland and she passed away into the 1238, certain months just after Joanna (this might account for some of the frustration clear involving the several female). She leftover no issue by Alexander II.